0:31 SPEAKER_03: If you're navigating permanently what's next to me, and you're in the right place. Let's buy it together. Mind, body, and spirit.

0:46 SPEAKER_03: Jackie is the founder of Body Wisdom Kinesiology. And she's a systematic kinesiologist and holistic practitioner who helps people understand the deep messages of the body and gently releases what's keeping them stuck, emotionally, physically, or energetically. So what I love about Jackie's work is how she bridges science and intuition, helping women tune into their body's innate intelligence and restore violence on every level, mind, body, and soul. And I've actually worked with Jackie and it's been quite an experience.

1:21 SPEAKER_03: It's I actually described Jackie, what I describe you as Jackie, um a magician.

1:28 SPEAKER_03: She's wonderful. I saw her a few times for different issues, and it's quite amazing the way she was able to kind of like go into her different um supplies and pour things up, like like I call her a witch in a good way. So I'm gonna say Jackie, welcome. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for having me on. Yeah, and before we could go on, I just want to first of all ask you how you got into your work. What tell me a bit about your own journey and what led you to become a systematic kinesiologist and launch body wisdom kinesiology?

2:04 SPEAKER_02: Um, well, I've I've always been interested in natural health and nutrition. And when I was growing up, my mum and my grandparents saw um holistic practitioners like osteopaths and homeopaths, you know, alongside conventional medicine. Um, but then you know, I didn't always live a particularly healthy lifestyle. I partied hard uh when I was younger and worked in the media and ate my fair share of junk food and had an extremely sweet tooth. You know, devour a bag of haribo in seconds, basically. Um so yeah, it was a lifestyle of sort of partying, drinking, hangovers, you know, junk food, blah blah blah.

2:48 SPEAKER_02: Um and I suppose that started to catch up with me, but before that, in my 20s, I'd been given beta blockers by the doctor for anxiety. I'd also started getting kind of adult onset acne and was given roaccutane, and I do, I am one of those people that does look at the inserts, and I was pretty alarmed to see that it caused liver cancer in rats. So I stopped taking the Roaccutane, and I wasn't particularly, I'd already I'd stopped taking the beta blockers by then as well, because I didn't really think that they were doing anything, and I had started doing or practicing yoga, which was brilliant, and I did it more for sort of mental health and physical health, really, because um yeah, to kind of handle stress.

3:35 SPEAKER_02: Um, but anyway, I kind of I suppose I can yeah, I continued my party lifestyle, but I did always then turn to holistic health practices rather than conventional because I didn't like the side effects on the on on the um inserts in the packets. Um and holistic practices have always yeah, have always worked for me. So um fast forward, I suppose, yeah, in my early 40s that lifestyle had started to catch up with me. And I did, I mean, I did have some healthy-ish habits. Um, I took supplements, I did practice yoga, and I've always liked food, like proper food.

4:16 SPEAKER_02: So I I tended to cook rather than eat ready meals you know when I was in.

4:21 SPEAKER_04: Yeah.

4:22 SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, it all started to catch up with me, and I knew that I needed to change my lifestyle if I wanted to feel better. Um, I just felt yeah, burnt out and exhausted. And so I was considering a career change, and I was thinking about becoming a nutritionist because I was actually thinking about becoming a nutritionist many, many years ago. Um, and I didn't, I went into I went a different path. Anyway, it became I I kind of started researching and I rediscovered kinesiology, and a friend of mine was into it sort of back in the 90s.

4:54 SPEAKER_02: So I'd heard of it, but didn't really know much about it. And what I loved about it was it it wasn't just about nutrition, it it was about energy and yeah, it covered everything. There was lymphatic massage, it just it covered so much more than just nutrition. Um, it covered emotions, energy as well, predominantly, because you know, not everything can be solved with a better, a better diet or more. I mean, lots can, but you know, there's more to it than just that. So, yeah, it really appealed, and then um, so I decided to train in that rather than just nutrition.

5:32 SPEAKER_02: Really sought received the benefits of it by having treatments myself and was quite blown away and really blown away when my tutor started practicing, and just even seeing, you know, even while I was training, some of the people on the course um had various issues, you know, medical or health issues that they were dealing with, as well as training, and just seeing my tutor work her magic during the demonstrations was pretty amazing. Watched some, yeah, quite phenomenal phenomenal transformations, even even while I was training.

6:06 SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, that's kind of how I got into it.

6:08 SPEAKER_03: Okay, and thanks for sharing that. That's uh, you know, great story. So you had anxiety in your 20s, and then is that what you said, right? And then you felt like with the yoga and then the kinesiology eventually coming into your life, it helped you change that?

6:20 SPEAKER_02: I didn't do kinesiology back then. That was just that was yeah, that was more yoga. Um, I just didn't well, yoga and other things, but I just didn't want to, I just didn't want to go down the medical route. It just didn't, it seemed to cause more problems than it solved for me. You know, it has a place. I'm not saying I'd never take, you know, obviously sometimes you do need medicine, not saying I never take it, but for me at that time it seemed to cause more problems than it solved.

6:47 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, okay, okay. So um who may not know, what is systematic kinesiology and how can it help with emotional, physical, or energetic healing?

6:59 SPEAKER_02: It's systematic kinesiology is a it's a holistic health modality and it considers the whole person. So we don't look at someone as an isolated set of um as symptoms. If you came with a rash, we wouldn't just treat your rash, we would look at um what perhaps caused the rash or you know, whatever it might be that you're presenting with. And quite often people come with a collection of symptoms, it's very rarely just one thing. Um so it was developed, kinesiology was developed in the 60s by a chiropractor called George Goodhart, and it's evolved further since then.

7:34 SPEAKER_02: But it combines nutrition, acupressure techniques, craniosacral, and chiropractic techniques, neuro lymphatic reflex point stimulation, emotional freedom technique, also known as tapping, and just so much more. So it really is truly a holistic practice. Um we use muscle testing to read bodily signals, particular muscles correspond with particular meridians in the five elements acupuncture. Um we that's part of um kinetology, we use five elements acupuncture as well, um, which can indicate where clients might require particular nutrient nutrients, um, or if certain foods are affecting their system, um, or if certain lifestyle stresses are causing issues.

8:29 SPEAKER_02: And when you understand more about the fascia, the fascia people think it's just connective tissue, um, but it's actually alive with millions of sensory receptors, and there are fascial lines and fascial planes, which kind of provide a structural and an anatomical um map um for acupuncture points and meridians. So, you know, if people want to understand it more, it's so if I mean it it kind of also makes sense of how things like reflexology work, you know, why you can twiddle somebody's toe and something or their arm, well, it's usually along those fascial lines or fascial veins.

9:11 SPEAKER_02: Um, so that it it's also how it answers how kinesiology works.

9:16 SPEAKER_03: Um is that also acupuncture the same kind of concepts?

9:20 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those meridians correspond with um sensory receptors in the fascia.

9:28 SPEAKER_03: Okay, yeah, so it really does combine so much.

9:32 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

9:32 SPEAKER_03: It's not simply one thing there, you've got so many groups together.

9:36 SPEAKER_02: That's it. And I mean, and the lymph, I mean, and also just in just to highlight, in classical anatomy, the fascia is still thrown away. So in classical anatomy, they don't even look at the fascia, don't even study it unless well, there are now independent researchers that are studying the fascia, um, but it's not widely um considered, it's not considered at all in in mainstream medicine, really.

10:02 SPEAKER_03: But that's changing now.

10:05 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, ish.

10:08 SPEAKER_03: Sorts of okay.

10:10 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, but the but the lymph as well, the lymph fluid, the lymph synth system sits within the fascia, um, and the lymph fluid cleans the cells and sorry, feeds the cells and cleans the bodily tissues. It's part of the kind of body's waste disposal um system. So, and lymph can kind of get congested and sluggish. So, if the lymph isn't working well, then your your body's not really clearing waste very well. So, we work on the lymph as well.

10:40 SPEAKER_03: So, that's um that's what are some reasons that lymph won't be working so well? Can you give you some examples?

10:48 SPEAKER_02: Dehydration and lack of movement, um, the main ones because lymph doesn't have a pump like blood. Um, so if we're not moving enough and we're not hydrated enough, um lymph can get congested. It's meant to be the consistency of like runny yogurt, and sometimes it can be a bit more like cottage cheese. So, yeah, movement. I mean, yeah, movement is is important.

11:13 SPEAKER_03: And a lot of what are some kind of effects when it's slow like cottage cheese? What happens?

11:18 SPEAKER_02: Well, it's just not it can't do its job, so it can't feed if it's stagnant and congested, it's not it's not flowing, um, so it's not feeding the cells or cleaning the tissues effectively. Um, so we we work on neuro lymphatic points in kinesiology, and we do encourage people to you know drink filtered water every day, which I realise it's hard. I'm not, I mean, I'm still not brilliant at that myself.

11:45 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think it's also harder when it gets cold as well. So I guess you can drink herbals as well, like herbal drinks is the problem.

11:52 SPEAKER_02: It's it's different, it it does need I mean, that's good as well, but it uh we always recommend um ideally up to two litres of filtered water. Even um carbonated water acts differently in the body, so it's plain and simple.

12:10 SPEAKER_03: It's okay to drink that because I always thought thought it's better um in the colder months to have warm drinks so you can have it from the kettle, right? Yeah, kind of warm water.

12:20 SPEAKER_02: I mean, and I mean obviously obviously herbal teas have their own benefits, green teas, but we would we recommend plain water, whether yeah, temperature-wise, uh it was warm or cold as as you know as people like.

12:34 SPEAKER_03: Okay, next question is why is embodiment listening to the body's signals and allowing it to speak so important in personal growth and transformation?

12:43 SPEAKER_02: Um, well, we we work a lot with emotion as well in kinesiology, and you know, uh people still sort of find it hard to acknowledge the mind, or some people still find it hard to acknowledge the mind and body connection, but it's those molecules of emotion live in the fascia, you know, or can get stuck in the fascia. So we we often tend to bury uncomfortable or upsetting emotions and just soldier on. It's kind of culturally what we're used to. Um but if if if people get the opportunity to acknowledge and release them, which they often do in a kinesiology treatment, it's it's not unusual to have tears on the table, they're they're releasing them and they're releasing that energy from their body.

13:28 SPEAKER_02: Um, and yeah, it's all part of the healing, it it it helps.

13:34 SPEAKER_03: Um it's interesting because before I went to see you first time, I I thought kinesiology was more just about kind of like supplements and everything, but then actually when I got to experience it with you, you were like doing all these weird kind of muscle testing and you know, this energy things, and that really um changed my perception of kinesiology was. And I feel there's a lot kind of all different modalities have this thing consistently the holistic approaches, it's all about the money mind and body connection.

14:02 SPEAKER_03: And you're talking about holding the emotions in, and there's a lot of research shows how it's all related to the mind and the body, and the body holds score, is a really well-known book, as far as you know, yeah, yeah, it shows a real correlation between people who hold on to their trauma and it's stored in the body and then they become physically sick.

14:22 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, in Gabor Mate's book, which is one of his books, When the Body Says No, um that one. And I mean, he can even he cites research where he can even into all that the the research has interviewed people with and they jotted down particular personality traits, and they can even correlate certain in in illnesses to those personality traits, like people who never say no or you know, certain things like that.

14:54 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they had different personalities. I think one type was more prone to get cancer, the other was all to immune diseases as well. So that's quite scary how we can bring that that manifest out through not releasing emotions.

15:08 SPEAKER_02: Well, also, I mean, stress takes a massive toll on the body, and and again, it's you know, it's cortisol, adrenaline, all those, you know, we're we're not built to be stressed constantly.

15:19 SPEAKER_03: Stress is good in small doses, but not you know, we we tend to just but it's it's like they say, you know, when the animals in the wild, when they're being attacked, they can then go away, shake it off and carry on. Whereas we are constantly living in that state of fear, we never shake it off, we just carry on, and our cord sort of is spiked all the time, and that's how we can go into that state and get sick.

15:47 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly that. And the fight, 70% of the nervous system is within the fascia, so that fight, flight, you know. I mean, that's where the mind-body connection is really clear because you know, you sense fear, and and our natural response is to either run, scream, or hide, you know, and and that that physical you don't even think about it, it's just an instinct, but that lives within the fascia, and that lives within the body, and the fascia can get stuck, it's meant to slide and glide, but it can um become static and stiff, like velcro and the limbs and everything, you know, blood flows through it, lymph flows through it, nerve conduction throws goes through it, so um, yeah, those those things can get stuck in the body.

16:37 SPEAKER_02: You can see how it can get stuck in the body.

16:40 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely. So, how does kinesiology engage the body's innate intelligence differently from more conventional approaches?

16:49 SPEAKER_02: Um, well, going back to the lymph, we we massage various neuro lymphatic points which correspond with certain meridians. Um, and as I've already said, the lymphatic system resides within the fascia. Um, and yeah, when that when that gets stiff or when the lymph gets stagnant or congested, not stagnant, more congested, um it's not flowing. So the massaging the neurolymphatic points and encouraging clients to drink more water helps the lymph fluid to flow and feed the cells and clean the tissues. Um and we also find the nutrition um that the client's body wants um, so yeah, their you know, nutrition along with sunlight and water are sort of building blocks to health.

17:43 SPEAKER_02: With I mean, obviously it's it's always better to get nutrition from food, but with modern food production methods, we that that isn't always possible. I mean, there's stats on how much less uh, you know less vitamins and minerals there are in, you know, I mean it's the stats are quite shocking. I haven't got them in front of me, but how much less calcium or vitamin C there are in um sort of vegetables compared to those grown in sort of pre-World War II. Um so a lot of us are overfed and undernourished.

18:17 SPEAKER_02: So but once the body has the nutrients that it needs, it's then able to make the necessary repairs. Um, I mean, and it's yeah, it's quite amazing. After I I broke my elbow a few years ago, and afterwards I had weirdly affect affected my thumb on the other hand as well. And just some after the supplements, which are really good for ligaments and tendons, it's been absolutely fine since. But those I would never have thought of taking that particular supplement. It wasn't something that you'd find, you know, it's not on people's radar, but really helped my thumb.

18:55 SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, our bodies are extremely sophisticated systems and they can heal bones, digest food, reproduce another entire human being in you know, in nine months, so they're capable of healing themselves if from you know most things, yeah, if it has the tool for a lot from for a lot of you know um ailments, minor ailments and some more serious ones as well.

19:23 SPEAKER_03: I also find it interesting how when I came to see you, you doing the muscle testing, so you were taking the current supplements I was using and testing them to see how my body took to them. Yeah, so that was really interesting. How does that work, Jackie?

19:39 SPEAKER_02: I mean, everything's frequency, so you know, we we live in a in a world that it is just vibration. So my understanding is that it's it's the frequency, um, it's the energetic frequencies that we're looking for, that we're yeah, and it's quite weird, isn't it? When you you you know, you you you feel it when you're on the receiving end, you're saying, yeah, it's not that one, it's not that one.

20:02 SPEAKER_03: Oh that's because the way you were testing was you you put them like on the part of my body, and then then you try and see how how how much uh resistance I could give to you, how strong I was. So the stronger I was, you were telling me that's the best one for me, whereas when I was weak, that's what wasn't working for me. So it was just really interesting because I could actually feel the the difference in my strength based on what you were putting on my body. So that was really strange, it is which is why I called you a witch.

20:32 SPEAKER_02: It's the same thing because if and it only it will only work if it's in a in a pot where there's you know, but if it was in a metal pot that it wouldn't work because you couldn't it it that would block that blocks it somehow. So it has to be straight on the skin or just in something like plastic that isn't going to affect the conduction or the yeah, it's it's it's really old how it all works, but it is pretty um amazing when you find everyone reacts differently.

21:00 SPEAKER_03: So if you were taking the same vitamins on somebody else, they wouldn't necessarily have the same reaction as me, right? Everyone has different reactions to whatever you use.

21:07 SPEAKER_02: Exactly, because we're all spent biochemically slightly different, um, which is why it's it's you know, to for people to say, Oh, just take this or just take that. What you know, what works if if I've got a particular, I might have something wrong, and you might have exactly the same thing going on, but what works for me might not work for you. And it's it's why, you know, like you somebody might go to see an osteopath with, I don't know, something wrong with their ankle, and the osteopath can make it, you know, it's all fine after a few sessions.

21:40 SPEAKER_02: Somebody else might go with the same type of thing going on, and theirs doesn't get better. And that might be because, as well as the structural problem, they might also be deficient in calcium or magnesium or other minerals, or they might be under immense stress at work and not have an outlet for it. So, you know, yeah, there's usually more than one thing going on.

22:05 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so it's about looking at it in a holistic way as well, I guess, like you were saying earlier. It's not just going and being prescribed, you know, certain medications, it's about seeing what's actually going on behind the symptom and not just treating that, right?

22:19 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I mean, and and and and there is a place for all, you know, it can kinesiology can work a lot really well alongside things like osteopathy or physio, or I mean, and if people are taking medicine, they can still have kinesiology. Um it can work alongside other modalities as well. Um it's not you know, only I don't believe only in, I mean, I I love kinesiology, but I have used it alongside other um treatments as well when when I've had you know like broken bones.

22:54 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, okay. Um, and how can practices like kinesiology help uncover and release emotions or patterns we may not even be consciously aware of?

23:04 SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean it's all it's always surprising to people when they they turn up with with something, and then I we always always I'll always ask what was going on six to twelve months prior to the start of the onset of whatever it is they're presenting with. Um and there's there's always something big. Um, it might be uh a relationship breakup, job loss, bereavement, parents got divorced. It's usually like a one-of-life biggies that proceeded. So, and again, people are quite surprised that that's got anything to do with their ailments, but it might be the first time that they've really you know acknowledged something or that there's un unfinished business there or unsolved grief and things like that.

23:55 SPEAKER_02: So it kind of gives people an opportunity to um acknowledge that there might still be some some grief that they need to work through, and um yeah, it's like the body's bringing it to the surface to be dealt with, right?

24:10 SPEAKER_03: As opposed to bearing it deep down, it has to come out. That's all you know. We do also in in hypnosis, as you know, it's like you you you've got to address what it is, otherwise it'll keep coming back.

24:21 SPEAKER_02: That's exactly that, yeah, exactly that. And that's it. I mean, I have had clients who said, Oh, right, okay, well, after the treatment, you know, and they've gone off and had therapy, or you know, they've realized that they needed to do to to sort of clear certain things, so yeah, because you know, again, we we you know, there isn't a lot of time, is there? You know, just people just have to crack on with life a lot of the time.

24:48 SPEAKER_03: That's it, isn't it? Yeah, people get lost in the busyness of it and they forget to take care of themselves.

24:55 SPEAKER_02: That's it. Um, and we we can also do we also use what we call verbal challenges, which can also change the uh the muscle. Um so again, if um with the muscle testing, we can do a challenge and then someone will go, yeah, oh that's bothering me more than I realized it was. Or um yeah, and we use backflower remedies because they also have a frequency which matches the frequency of particular emotions and can help to to balance.

25:27 SPEAKER_03: Um you also use affirmations, I was surprised at as well in in the session review. You use affirmations.

25:35 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah. Well, um, according to my tutor, um EFT was actually taken out of kinesiology, it was part of, it's always been part of kinesiology. Now it's obviously a you know very powerful standalone um treatment. So, yeah, that is one of the techniques that we use.

25:53 SPEAKER_03: So many women in midlife experience shifts in energy, identity, hormones, and purpose. How can kinesiology for your holistic methods support someone navigating this phase?

26:05 SPEAKER_02: Um, in in a number of ways. So, firstly, there's plenty of herbs and plants with phytoestrogens and other nutrients that can support our bodies through um, you know, through midlife, once the natural hormone production starts to wane. So, and instead of wondering which to take, because obviously there are so many, like red clover, black kohosh, all sorts. So a kinesiologist can find the herbal remedies and the nutrients that you know someone's body responds to. Stress and sugar also massively affect the endocrine system, the hormones, uh, and that can worsen symptoms like hot flushes, headaches, mood swings, insomnia, brain fog, fatigue.

26:48 SPEAKER_02: So, again, we would look to um balance somebody's blood glucose um and reduce stress. Uh, once the body has the nutrients it needs, quite often cravings um tend to drop away. I I've always had such a sweet tooth, but since I've been since um I I've been having kinesiology, it's definitely dropped away. It's still, I mean, it's still there, yeah, but not in the way. Like now the thought of hoovering up a bag of haribo, no way. I just couldn't do it. But you know, once upon a time it was a regular, a regular thing.

27:27 SPEAKER_02: So yeah, you tend to it, and it then doesn't become a battle of wills because you're able to just let go of or the thing that you once craved just no longer appeals to you. So yeah, kinesiology empowers people to take charge of their health, um, and it becomes easier to then make the changes that you want to make. It's not it's not that oh god, I can't believe I've done that again. It just it just naturally becomes a little bit easier. Also, something that we would consider in kinesiology is the emotions around midlife, um which isn't recognised.

28:08 SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, some women might be relieved that they can't don't have periods anymore or they can no longer get pregnant, but others, you know, might be deeply distraught or disappointed about the loss of fertility. So these emotions can, you know, they might again they might be buried, um, but we can it's something that might come into a session and it can be handled in a you know in a delicate way and released, um, which is usually quite helpful.

28:41 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's interesting that there's a different approach, again, holistic approach to um midlife and menopause because in general, what you see in the mainstream is the encouragement just to take HRT, it's just simply to do with the hormones. Well, I think it's much more than just hormones, wouldn't you say?

28:58 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's it. I mean, and you know, and I know that you know, some women get such horrendous symptoms that they just want something that's gonna stop it. So, you know, I get that. Um but it yeah, if there are there are other ways of um you know navigating it. If if people are interested in doing that, then which it's not it's not so much um it's not as widely talked about, but you know, there are there are more holistic ways if if women want that, you know, they want to do it naturally and not medicated, then um it is yeah, there are other options.

29:43 SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, and there's I mean so kinesiology seems to me like that is an option for women who are going through that time in their life that they would like to go a more natural route as opposed to just taking hormones.

29:58 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, very much. I mean and I I've had clients that are on HRT and still come for kinesiology. So it it can work side by side um again, but also if yeah, if they don't want to take it, um it's a great way of of navigating um menopause. Because we you can deal we deal with the physical symptoms and the emotional um aspect and quite often you know loss of energy, but we can um find what their body wants to you know bring balance their energy, bring their energy back.

30:37 SPEAKER_03: And what about for women, for example, like you have hot flushes, what would you recommend um for hot flushes a natural way?

30:45 SPEAKER_02: Well, it I mean again it it very much depends on the person. So what might work for you might not work for me or for somebody else. So um it really is that um bespoke bespoke treatment to find the nutrients that their body wants to to acknowledge any stresses that they might have um going on or any emotions.

31:07 SPEAKER_03: Um there's it's so going back to hot flushes for from a kinesiology perspective, what is that down to? Why do women get hot flushes?

31:20 SPEAKER_02: Um it can be. I mean, this isn't necessarily a kinesiology thing, this is just a holistic thing in general. It can represent um suppressed anger and all the times that you know we've stayed quiet when we probably should have spoken up, you know, and particularly when we're younger. Um yeah, I think that's why we there probably are so many sort of more ballsy older women because we've stopped being quiet.

31:47 SPEAKER_03: Had enough, yeah. That's yeah, that's which is really interesting. That's my next question, actually. I was gonna ask from your perspective, why might the stage of life become a potent time for awakening and reconnection rather than simply a challenge? Because I think that's how it's portrayed a lot of the time in the media. It's like this difficult time for women to go through, and it's got to be like have the HRT. But how do you would you reframe that?

32:08 SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, there are lots of there are lots of women that write about this. Um people like Sharon Blackie, Dr. Christian Northrop, Kate Coddington, they all talk about the positive aspects of um metaphors and the mythology, and how you know, in folklore, older women were the wisdom keepers, and you know, we live in a very youth-obsessed society, so it tends to be viewed very negatively. Um, you know, I know I dreaded it. Um, and that that can have a dramatic effect on the experience, you know.

32:39 SPEAKER_02: We sort of led to believe that, oh, that's it, life's gonna be over. Yeah. Um, but I know when as soon as I learned that in other cultures that it's viewed diff differently, like women in China and Japan don't, in quotation marks, suffer through menopause, it's it's referred to as the second spring. And I started to research more, you know, this was quite a few years ago. Yeah, and just discovered all these just different ways of looking at it and realizing that um it can be a portal to your wiser self, it can be um yeah, a new definitely a second chapter, a new phase of life.

33:21 SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think when this when the symptoms start to come up, we do just want to get rid of them. It is quite a shock when you've been used to having loads of energy and you know thinking quickly and then suddenly like your memory is a lot of people. You know, all those things, it's like, oh my god, so I can totally understand why lots of women just want it to stop and and and do whatever it it takes. Um I think just because I I just have I have a resistance, you know, to to just taking medicine, I think.

33:57 SPEAKER_02: Um and I was looking for other ways of of doing it. Um and yeah, I'm glad I did. Um but it does, I mean it does mean lifestyle changes, you know. I have kind of cut back on the amount of sugar that I eat and the amount of wine that I drink, which doesn't, you know, doesn't sound like much fun to some people, so I get why people don't want to do it. Um, because it isn't it's simple, but it isn't always easy. Um but yeah, I think if you can hold your nerve and change, you know, I don't want to still live like I'm 30.

34:36 SPEAKER_02: So, but you know, I did for a long time, but yeah, I'm kind of done with that now.

34:43 SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it's it's a strange time of life. It's like you said, it's also it's like um a transition, and you kind of you know, letting some things go and just embracing the new chapter and just seeing what you've learned. And again, it goes back to what you said earlier about the symptoms, like when you when you treat not the symptoms but the root cause. So people who have these feelings they want to get rid of, you can help them with that, but then they can actually embrace that new chapter.

35:12 SPEAKER_02: That's it. And and apparently, actually, it's a time when unresolved traumas can come up to be sort of dealt with as well. Which you know, again, it's not that's not nice, is it? You know, we want to just push it down and yeah, well, that's it.

35:26 SPEAKER_03: I've seen that a lot of my clients, I have so many clients around this age who have repressed for so many years, it's all coming out and you know, different ways, like you said, different symptoms like anger, yeah, the anxiety is all coming to the surface, so it's got to be dealt with. So I think it's good though, because you're forced to do it, you can't enjoy it.

35:44 SPEAKER_02: It is, yeah. And and saying, like, yeah, I've seen similar in in clients, and it is, it's I mean, it's horrible. Nobody wants to um, you know, we just want to push it down and crack on with life. But um, I think if you can do it, you come out the other side, and you know, it's been said sometimes you've got to have a breakdown to have a breakthrough, and I think we probably feel a bit like that sometimes.

36:10 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's it's hard. No, no one says it's easy, but it's just getting through it and then feeling better on the other side because you do let go. You're at because you can't let go of it until you actually acknowledge it. Yeah, and that's quite empowering, I feel, as well. Yeah, I agree. Okay, so so you support clients through one-to-one sessions and helicopter treatments. What kinds of transformations have you witnessed in those healing spaces, Jackie?

36:36 SPEAKER_02: Um, I've seen you know, people's itchy red skin conditions clear up, insomniacs able to sleep again, um, pain reduction and increased mobility after serious injuries, um fears cleared after accidents and injuries. You know, sometimes people are sort of frightened to get back in the bath or have a shower or something, you know, if they've slipped over and broken something, and after treatment they've been able to do that again. Um, asthmatics able to breathe better and reduce reliance on inhalers, um, clients with increased energy, improved um digestion, and more balanced hormones.

37:17 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's it's yeah.

37:20 SPEAKER_03: Okay, so there's different types of um, I guess clients you've had of different issues. And so on on average, how many sessions do you think a client needs to resolve? Is it depending on the issue itself?

37:34 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it really, really I mean, it really depends. I mean, it's really I would say three to six is is generally, but if it's you know, if it's long-standing issues, so I you know, client might come in and when did this first start? Or when I was 10, you know, and they're in their 30s or 40. So it's something built that's been building up for sort of 20 years. I mean, you can we do see really quick results sometimes, but generally if something's taken 20 years to build up, it's it's probably not going to disappear in one session.

38:12 SPEAKER_02: So you you know, you're probably gonna need a few sessions, and lots of people do like to come like myself. I I would just have regular treatments um just for maintenance, really. And also, kinesiology is good at picking things up before they become clinical, you know, they're sort of subclinical. So I when I went to see my kinesiologist, she was like, Oh, what's going on with your liver? I was like, Oh, I don't know. And you know, one of the liver supplements came up for me. And then weirdly, um I had a blood test a few months later and it showed really high, or a few it was around that time it showed really high liver enzymes, so it can pick things up before they become yeah, or be uh actually before they would even be noticed on a on a blood test.

39:08 SPEAKER_02: Um I mean in that instance it was on a blood it was noticed on a blood test that I had um around that time. But yeah, it was she she noticed it first.

39:21 SPEAKER_03: Okay, that's interesting. So how often would you go for these visits um just as a checkup?

39:27 SPEAKER_02: Every four to six weeks is the ideal. I mean, sometimes life gets in the way or budgets don't allow, so you know I appreciate that, but um ideally, yeah, four to six weeks.

39:40 SPEAKER_03: And then so and and when you're seeing a client for a certain issue, is it every week you recommend to see them?

39:46 SPEAKER_02: No, it would still be between three and six weeks, depending depending what comes up. You you want to give the nutrition time to really collect, and that can take sort of three a good three weeks to get into the system. Um, yeah, between three and six weeks is the ideal.

40:05 SPEAKER_03: You're gonna be part of our retreats on the 29th of November, which is very exciting. Thank you for coming. Um pleasure. May the women be expecting from you on that day because obviously it's not a one-to-one session, so how will you be doing it in a group? What do we expect?

40:22 SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, obviously, people would normally come to a one-to-one session, but there are lots of kinesiology techniques that you can do at home um or yourself. So I'll do a group session and I'll show um the women some of the calming techniques that we use, some of the acupuncture points that you can kind of tap to calm yourself down or sort of ease a headache, things like that. We also have um cross-crawl exercises, which are really good for sort of balancing the left and right hemispheres of the brain.

40:53 SPEAKER_02: Sorry, Jackie, what's a cross-crawl? It's a it's an exercise that I'm going to show in on the on the retreat. It's a it's good for brain balance, uh, left, right hemisphere, brain balance and lymphatic um stimulation that you know you can just do at home for like 20 minutes, 15-20 minutes in the morning, or even if you're flagging, you know, during the day, if you're feeling a bit oof, uh it's good to get up and do a little bit of cross-crawl. Um, and also can do some food testing um techniques if they think they might have an issue with wheat um or sugar, we can do some food testing.

41:32 SPEAKER_02: There's there's some other techniques that you can do yourself, um, or there's a technique I should say that you can do yourself at home just to see what effect certain foods have on your body. So we do that as well.

41:46 SPEAKER_03: Okay, so I'm looking forward to that, Jackie. Yeah, me too. And then could you just share one simple embodiment or body-wise practice that listeners could try at home today to connect with their body's wisdom?

42:00 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's I mean, again, it's it it sounds almost too simple, but there's a technique where um just holding your hand on your forehead, there's two little bumps kind of right above your eyebrows, and if you just put your hand there and slightly lift it.

42:14 SPEAKER_03: One second, Jackie.

42:16 SPEAKER_02: Let me just put your hand on your forehead on the bumps, kind of in the middle of your forehead, and just gently lift it. If you're if you you you've got a dilemma or you're worrying about something, if you just put your hand there, it's kind of the where the prefr near the prefrontal cortex, where I'll you know, the thinking part of the brain rather than the um impulsive part. Quite often you can just think more clearly about something, or you might suddenly have a bright idea about something that was bothering you that um you know that sort of solves an issue, and it's it's kind of a natural reflex.

42:55 SPEAKER_03: You know, if you've got if something goes wrong, we're like, oh, you know, we put isn't it that that famous um statue or like that thinker? Yes, exactly that. Yeah, exactly. Can't get the name right now. That's the brain fogger.

43:09 SPEAKER_02: It is the thinker, I think it is called the thinker. Okay, um, yeah, exactly that. So that's just a really simple technique that if you're if you're worried about something, it just takes the heat off it and just helps you think more clearly. We use it as well in in treatments if there's a particularly sore point that it's you know a bit painful for someone, quite often just putting your hand there takes it down a few notches. Um makes this one you go to now, Jackie. Thanks. Yeah, it is it's a it's a good one, and it's very it's just so simple to do.

43:44 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think that's what it is. It's good to have some simple things that's like less obstacle to do it, you know. Something you don't need to go anywhere or get anything, just do it. Yeah, exactly. Um, and do you have a personal ritual habit that helps you stay aligned and connected to your own body and higher self, Jackie?

44:02 SPEAKER_02: Well, um try to drink two litres of water a day, and I must admit I don't always manage it myself. I do realise how hard it is. Um, eating whole food, taking supplements and doing yoga and cross-crawl, and I'm still trying to develop a regular meditation practice. Um, I would love to be doing it every day, but I I certainly don't, um, not yet anyway. Um, and I also try and get out and see the sunrise or the sunset if I can, depending on the time of year. Obviously, don't do that in the summer at 4am.

44:39 SPEAKER_02: But again, um it's a bit easier now to get out and see the sunrise.

44:44 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it does actually make a massive difference, I find like going out first thing in the morning. It really doesn't matter how tired you are, just being outside in the sunlight, even if you don't have sun in this country, it's just being uh exposed.

44:56 SPEAKER_02: Well, we get infrared rays, the infrared and the near red rays in the sun at that time of the morning are really good for the mitochondria. It's why people pay lots of money for red light therapy. I know, but it's a lot cheaper just to go outside.

45:10 SPEAKER_03: Exactly, exactly, exactly, and easier, yeah. Yeah, but it's just that thing to get yourself out. But once you go out, I you know, I always feel better for it. It's just getting outside the door, which is why I love just counting down the simple the Mel Robbins five seconds, five, four, three, two, one, and just do it. Oh, yeah, it's such a simple thing to do and it's super effective.

45:32 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because I I mean I'd like to do it more often, I don't do it as often as I would like to. I mean, yeah, but um I want to start now that the sunrise is a is later, it's a bit more manageable, isn't it, when it's sort of eight-ish.

45:46 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know these, but these are things again, it's like it's habits, though, isn't it? The once you incorporate incorporate them into your day, they just become something you do.

45:53 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sometimes doing it.

45:56 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think it's important though, isn't it, for us to incorporate stuff like that into our day. So we kind of make it it's like the maintenance of ourselves, going back to what you were saying, it's preventative measures. Otherwise, what happens is we try to do too much, we burn ourselves out, and then we're not no use to anyone.

46:16 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's it. And I think just adding in what's manageable because it can feel quite overwhelming. You know, I know I at one point had a list as long as my arms, oh my god, it's just too much. So just doing just doing what you can and adding something in, yeah, you know, slowly but surely, right without overloading yourself or then beating yourself up when you don't do it, just anything extra that you do is good, you know, if it's drinking water or seeing the sunrise or whatever.

46:47 SPEAKER_03: But I think you're right, but it's important, I think, to have at least one or two things that you're doing for yourself to fill that cup up of yours to make sure that you're running smoothly. It's like they say about a car, you can have a beautiful Ferrari car, but if you're not, you know, maintaining the oil in the water, it'll just break down.

47:04 SPEAKER_02: That's what we are, in effect, right? Yeah, it's true. It's it's like that saying, isn't it? If um if you don't have time to meditate for 20 minutes each day, do an hour. Oh yeah, you need them all.

47:21 SPEAKER_03: That's but I that's so true, Jackie. You're exactly right because I feel sometimes when I get overwhelmed with so much and I have no time to meditate, that's when I need it the most.

47:30 SPEAKER_02: Exactly. And then when we do take the time to do it, you can and you do end up being able to do more things when you you know, I can get in that overwhelm. Oh my god, don't know what to do next. And then yeah, when you do take the time to sort of slow down, you can you're actually capable of doing more than you were when you're in that headless chicken mode.

47:50 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's it, and that's how I felt that until I kind of incorporated meditation and the ritual into my day because I was always just wake up and rush into my day, and then I was like a headless chicken, just constantly with a list to do list, going getting longer every time I take something off, something else will be added on. I felt so overwhelmed, and I felt just by you know, just like mixing that up and waking up slightly earlier and meditating and just you know, doing things for myself, I felt more clear-headed.

48:20 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah. That's yeah. So I I think that's what I remind myself when I get overstressed. I just say, okay, you need to kind of wake up a bit earlier and do that, have things in place to have a system so you it's just a ritual that I'm used to doing it.

48:35 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's it. And then it becomes second nature, doesn't it?

48:38 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like brushing your teeth, I say. It's like you know, you don't really think about brushing your teeth going to brush your teeth every day. Yeah, exactly. So, um, yeah, and what's lighting you up right now in your work?

48:50 SPEAKER_02: Oh, I think um, I think understanding more about the fascial network in the body, because it kind of it makes kinesiology make more sense to me. It's not just um yeah, it provides like an anatomical structural answer to why I can test a muscle here and it affects a meridian there, understanding the fascial lines and the fascial planes and how the body is connected by the fascia, um, and alive with millions of sensory receptors all over it, sending messages all around the body. Um yeah, really is making sense of a lot of um a lot of it provides answers.

49:48 SPEAKER_03: Okay, and if you could leave women listening with one message about reconnecting with their power, body, and purpose, what would it be?

49:55 SPEAKER_02: Oh I think um just start the adventure, just do it. Yeah, in what in what in whatever way works, in whatever way works for them.

50:06 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think that's the thing as well, isn't it? We do forget that you know life I kind of go back to the spiritual aspect of it, but I I do believe that we are souls, we're all souls, and we're just leaving huge human existences, it's just our vessel, and you know, it's about kind of what you're learning and just living for it because we're not living infinitely. Yeah, yeah.

50:33 SPEAKER_02: Not having any regrets, really. Yeah, I don't think we're here just to work ourselves to death and and and shop all the time and drink ourselves silly every weekend, like I used to do.

50:44 SPEAKER_03: I know, but I think that's the thing you go through when you're young, right? You think you're gonna live forever, and you know, you don't think about tomorrow, but I think over time you you see things differently, don't you? That's that's one of the benefits of being our age. We see you have a different perspective on life and what it's about. Yeah, and life is about having those moments and experiences and not having regrets for what you didn't do. I think there was a really great book. I can't remember the name, Jackie.

51:12 SPEAKER_03: Maybe you put you can tell me. It's it was written by a nurse who was working in the hospice, I think, and she was writing the memoirs.

51:19 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know the book you mean. Yeah.

51:22 SPEAKER_03: I can't remember the name of it on their deathbed what they regretted. Yeah. And nobody ever said they regretted not working more or you know, like watching more TV.

51:32 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

51:33 SPEAKER_03: So I I think that's something I always remind myself as well. You know, when you get to your deathbed, what will your regrets be?

51:39 SPEAKER_02: Yeah. And I think that's what that's one of the other things about menopause. Again, I think when I was sort of, you know, in in in perimenopause and it all felt very scary and awful, and my life was going to be over. I can't remember where I heard it. It might have been on a course. I don't know if it was a course or a book, but it was basically that when you're younger, your life is ego-driven, and when you get to midlife, it's soul-driven. So if you can connect more with that and what you truly want rather than what you think you should want, quite often that's the um that can help.

52:20 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I definitely think that's I I mean, I see that in myself when I was younger. I was always about, you know, pleasing others, pleasing my family. And then as I got into my 40s, had my last child, I chose to kind of change direction and start, you know, working in therapy and actually pursuing what lights me up and I feel happy. Yeah. So I thought I have a purpose other than not just being a mum, but having another purpose in life. Yeah. Because when my kids grow up, I also want to have my own um purpose, which is because you kind of get your identity back in a way.

52:53 SPEAKER_03: So I definitely feel that's by what you're saying. It's yeah, it's soul driven. Like what I do is because I love doing it, and you know, I wouldn't imagine doing anything else at this point in my life.

53:02 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Exactly, exactly that. And I think also there's a if people have done jobs that are sort of status driven as well, you know, doing jobs that more for interest than money or status, I think, as well. You know, I mean easier.

53:25 SPEAKER_03: I realize it's easier said than done sometimes, but I think once once people start, then hit the leap, leap of faith, and start doing I I think that's why a lot of um women at our in our age group, like they kind of start to question things in their life and they feel the bit lost. That's what I found a lot of my clients that they're not really sure what they want, you know. They're so used to being the certain role, and then now they're not sure they want that role anymore. Yeah.

53:54 SPEAKER_02: So it can feel scary to think what well what is next.

53:58 SPEAKER_03: Yeah. Interesting. So, yeah, I definitely agree that it's definitely soul-led this um phase in our life, which is really exciting, I feel, because there's so many opportunities, and it's just about seeing what there is. As you know, what this is off probably off topic, but I was listening to his podcast earlier today. Um, Dai was CEO, and he had a guest on talking about reality, about how we've got the VR headsets on, and about that's not the real reality, it's about taking it off and actually I don't know.

54:29 SPEAKER_01: Oh, who was it with? Because I do like his podcast as well. Who was the interview with?

54:34 SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna tell you. Um, it was I actually, it's the second time I heard this guy because um I think he's quite prominent. He was also interviewed in another podcast I was listening to as well in the last few days. Oh okay, I'm gonna look for it. I'll I'll send it to you. Oh it's probably it's it's I don't know if it's off topic because it's talking about you know how we have this idea of per se of reality of where we are, but actually it's like it's a VR headset with seeing what was in front of us, but if we take it off, there's much more out there.

55:03 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I yeah, I think so. 100%, which is quite cool because it's like you're creating your reality, it's what you're focusing on, and it goes back to you know, like subconscious and what projecting. So I love that idea.

55:19 SPEAKER_02: Well, and I was reading a book by someone who I think what she does is similar to what you do, and she's she was also a neuroscientist, but she said as well, like it's there is a there is a Dr.

55:32 SPEAKER_03: Taurus Swartz. Oh, exactly. That's her. Yeah, I've got the book as well.

55:36 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I love how and it it was her. I think we're so we there is so much around us, our our brain just naturally edits, so we don't have to take in all the stimulus.

55:51 SPEAKER_03: The reticulate activation system, it's like it's like the bodyguard at the door, basically, and it's like letting letting in what you're used to letting in, and you're kind of closing off automatically what's around you. So, like if if you know you're for instance buying a red car, you're gonna keep seeing red cars around. But you know, um, if you're buying a blue car, you'll see blue cars. So whatever you think of most is what you'll keep seeing around you. That's the reticular activated system because it's impossible to take everything in.

56:17 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because if you overstimulated, you're made to focus on anything. So we need to like that survival, and that's what this um the guest on the podcast was saying that it's a survival effect, it would be impossible for us to live in the day say if we saw everything around us, yeah, yeah. So it has to close things off for us to be able to survive, basically.

56:37 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but how when I suppose when we are focused on something, then we start to notice opportunities or things that we might not have noticed.

56:47 SPEAKER_03: Yeah. Yeah. You're right. And and that's the thing. So it's a again, you know, the neural pathway is kind of like changing them to focus on what you want to have, which is why we I always say, like, you know, when we're working on an issue, not to think about what you don't want, but actually to tell yourself what you do want. Because you want to reverse it, because otherwise you're manifesting what you don't want constantly. Your mind can't tell the difference between a negative and positive. So do not repeat the negative.

57:16 SPEAKER_03: Because that's what people, you know, automatically are doing autopilot, they're constantly thinking negative stuff.

57:21 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah. Because that's also a survival thing, isn't it?

57:25 SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, that's how we could survive. It would be, you know, looking for the threats all the time because we were living in the wild. But now we don't live in the wild, we have our homes.

57:35 SPEAKER_02: Kind of wild, yeah.

57:36 SPEAKER_03: It's a different type of wild, but it's not really serving us anymore. If we're constantly on, you know, on alert and you're thinking the worst thing's gonna happen, that's not really helping you thrive. Yeah, not even survive that while really, to be honest.

57:49 SPEAKER_04: True.

57:50 SPEAKER_03: So, um, yeah, I think this is a very empowering phase. Summary. Yeah, um, okay, and to close the interview, as part of podcast tradition, what's something your body or intuition has been teaching you lately, Jackie?

58:05 SPEAKER_02: To slow down and relax. Um yeah, I can be guilty of being in headless chicken mode. And I think as well, because you know, when you're interested in loads of things, always got different books and podcasts, this and that on the go. And it's like, oh my god, just just close it down and just relax and take it easy a little bit. So, yeah, just slowing down a bit, I think.

58:28 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's really good advice. I think sometimes it's so easy to kind of get lost in everything, so it's so overstimulating on a day-to-day basis, everything's on the go, go, go, go, go.

58:37 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you get fo you know, I get it, you get FOMO. Don't you want to do this, you want to do that, want to do everything, and then like, oh I can't do everything.

58:45 SPEAKER_03: I know, that's it. Because you do get overwhelmed, and then you just get over stressed, and it's not helping you, so yeah, that's very good.

58:52 SPEAKER_02: And you're doing one thing thinking, oh, but I'm I'm doing this, but I should be doing that, or should I be doing that, or I want to do this, and I you know, it's just like being comfortable and at peace with whatever it is that's in front of me and just blocking out some of the other distractions, or just being present, right?

59:10 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, exactly that and what does living as your limitless self mean to you right now, Jackie?

59:18 SPEAKER_02: Um, I think probably standing by my principles and what I believe in, even though there's a lot of mainstream pressure um that kind of denies ancient wisdom and natural health practices, um, but they've kept humans alive and kicking for millennia. Um just trusting in that innate wisdom, really, um of our bodies and minds and going with it.

59:51 SPEAKER_03: That's a great thing. Agreed. Okay, well, thank you so much, Jackie, for your time and I look Forward to seeing you at the retreat in a few weeks.

1:00:04 SPEAKER_01: Thank you. Thanks for having me. It's been lovely to share. Thanks a lot.

1:00:09 SPEAKER_03: Thanks so much for listening to Hot Flashes and Higher Self. And if something in today's episode spoke to you and you're feeling ready for deeper support, then you can book a one-to-one session with me. I work with women around the world to help them shift from stock to self-led. And if you're craving real connection, movement, rest, and reset, then check out the women's retreats I host. They're a beautiful mix of healing, hot yoga, incredible food, and soul deep conversations and connections. And you can find all the details at www.lslshypentherapy.com or come hang out with me on Instagram at LimitlessSelf Therapy.

1:00:48 SPEAKER_03: And you can also reach me directly anytime at sway at lstherapy.com. I'd love to connect. Take care of you, fill that cup of yours, and remember your next chapter is already unfolding.